Technology Meets Mindset in the Sweet Sucess of Clementine
Every month, we celebrate and feature a woman who went for it, bringing their vision and passion to life. While their businesses and projects vary — they all have battled through self-doubt, jumped before fully ready and embarked on entrepreneurship while simultaneously carrying a heavy load specially reserved for modern mothers.
For April, we are chatting with Kim Palmer, founder of Clementine, a mindset company innovating self care and on a mission to free women from unhelpful thoughts, feelings & expectations. The company’s app provides cognitive hypnotherapy, breath work, mindfulness and affirmations to thousands of women daily. With a community of therapists and partnerships aimed at creating opportunities for self care and therapy in daily lives and products, Palmer’s vision is changing what it means to take care of ourselves. Here, she shares how she built Clementine and how her breakthrough in business all started with a personal breakdown — one that would shape her work for years to come.
Can you tell us about Clementine and what inspired you to create it?
It all started about ten years ago when I had a mental health breakdown. I started experiencing quite debilitating panic attacks when I became pregnant with my first son — but that wasn’t the reason. As a workaholic and a people pleaser, I had spent years and years of working like a crazy woman, always trying to have my stuff together; however, I didn’t look after my mental health at all. When I was on maternity leave, I went on a quick downward spiral and developed social anxiety, which led to not wanting to go out anywhere. and I felt like I was in a cave.
I tried a number of different ways to get me out of that hole: I tried talking therapy and the first meditation apps when they were first introduced, but my busy brain couldn’t absorb any of it. Ultimately, hypnotherapy became a huge source of relief, and more than that,- it helped me to cope with getting back to work and also then unpacking a lot of unhealthy behaviors. It wasn’t until a few years later when I was working at a company where we ran an initiative for women in the workplace that I started to lean in and tell people about myself, my anxiety, and not always feeling confident at work, amongst other feelings, and that these emotions don't need to define your life. I had so many light bulb moments throughout this process. I recognized this sort of silent epidemic going on where most of the women felt the same, which is when I started thinking, oh maybe there’s a way that I can help them? After a lot of reflection, I recognized that the job I was in was actually a huge source of my mental health problems and that it was time to redefine my life; part of this redefinition included starting a business, which is how the concept for clementine originated.
Clementine focuses on hypnotherapy versus meditation. Can you explain the difference and why perhaps hypnotherapy gets overshadowed by meditation?
Like mindful meditation, hypnotherapy lulls you into a state of relaxation and helps calm your mind and clear your head to help you get through your day in a positive, calm and stress-free way. While both disciplines are similar there are big differences that might make one work better for you than the other.
The great thing about it is that there’s no pressure, we lull you into a relaxed hypnotic state and you can let the words wash over you. Once you’re in the trance state we then help to interrupt negative thought patterns replacing them with positive ones. Putting you back in control of your own behaviour.
The reason it is completely overshadowed comes down to marketing and money. Both Headspace and Calm made meditation mass market and they spent a tonne of money doing this - millions. They took it mainstream and used celebs to help with this job, too. They had first mover advantage. We just haven't had the same level of funding, and so haven't been able to tackle the first big job, which is to take the hypnotherapy mainstream.....yet.
The decision to follow a dream is brave. The decision to follow your dream and make it your livelihood is brave, and also scary! How did you take this leap?
I tackled this in stages: I was working when I started Clementine, so it was a side hustle - which meant there was no risk – and honestly,. I was just having so much fun creating this new concept off the side of my desk, during the weekends and evenings. Although I was still busy with my regular job, Clementine became this hobby that I literally could not stop working on. About two years in of balancing work and creating Clementine, I felt very burnt out doing both, and the balancing act became very difficult. Throw having a family into the mix and well - . at some point, something was going to have to give.
One weekend, I had a conversation with my husband when I was totally distraught, thinking, I just can’t do all of this anymore.. We had already spent all of our life savings on me building Clementine, which in itself was a huge risk.
That was the tipping point; that was when we decided that I would quit my job (where I earned a hell of a lot more money than my husband, who is a teacher).The decision required a huge upheaval and a multitude of lifestyle changes for our family. Despite these challenges, we decided to go all in.
I remember giving work a three month notice period and the nerves associated with doing that. We began saving all our money and ensured that we had enough saved away that we could go without my salary. Our task was to try and raise money so that we could make Clementine a full time, paid job for me. And that's what I managed to do.
Founding a mindset company is incredibly innovative, but you've also continued to innovate further. Clementine now offers 1:1 therapy sessions and creates digital mindset experiences for brands. Where do your ideas come from? Were these concepts part of your business plan or were they inspired by a need you were witnessing?
In many ways, it's quite easy to derive ideas for this business because we have such a broad,expansive mission, which is to create a world where everyone believes that she can do anything she puts her mind to. And if you adhere to that belief, it means that you could construct a multitude of solutions to help support that mission. So I'm always thinking really, really, really, really broadly. I never started the business thinking that Clementine was an app because that would have taken us down a very narrow path. Rather, Clementine’s brand promotes a mission that supports women, which led to the many products and services we could offer associated with that mission.
Clementine has always had a vision: for example, our one-to-one service that was in the original business plan, but it’s all about timing, isn’t it? And although we knew that people sometimes need more help, whether that's through a mindset planner or one-to-sone booking services, the timing often the next part of the equation, and knowing when to start experimenting- and even knowing when to just park stuff – is crucial.I don’t often run into roadblocks when it comes to ideas; it’s more the timing of when to put some of these ideas on the backburner, and when to put some into full gear.
I'm currently writing an essay for this issue about when women creators, writers and entrepreneurs get in the rut of feeling like, "it's all been done before." Have you ever experienced this? What generates inspiration for you and any advice on how to overcome this mindset?
I absolutely experienced that feeling before I started Clementine, and. it was likely one of the reasons why I hadn't started my own business for so long. I literally had that thing going on in my head, which was all, oh, everybody's already come up with all the good ideas.
But then I realized that I was approaching my new venture in completely the wrong way, and .that the easiest way to come up with ideas is to not think about the ideas themselves, but instead, to think about the problems you’re addressing or trying to solve. Consider, what are the 10 different ways that I could solve this problem? Who's solving this problem? Well, who's not solving it? Where are the blank spaces? And where are the gaps?
I think this is an excellent way to reframe the mindset. Just because someone's done it before, doesn’t mean it can’t be done in a different way. In your way. I had to accept that “it’s been done before” with calm and headspace, so I had to ask myself the question, are they me? No. think a lot of it is about reframing your mindset, but also tackling the problem in a different way.
Our audience is made up of moms approaching and embarking on mid-life, so we've been sharing information on perimenopause and some of the challenges it brings. Clementine partnered with No.7 to create mind-skin rituals for menopause. How can hypnotherapy help with this stage of life?
I am one of those mums who is very much in perimenopause with my period now down to one day in my cycle. And I've experienced the long list of physical and emotional symptoms that come with navigating this time. Hypnotherapy can absolutely help with this stage of life. We proved that through the partnership that we did with Number Seven, where we created very specific rituals to support brain fog, cognitive functioning, confidence, hot flashes, and sleep disturbances. After a study with 400 menopausal women, we have evidence that our health intervention of hypnotherapy, along with a self-guided massage in some circumstances, can improve of these symptoms.
Doing hypnotherapy and working to improve your mindset can be considered forms of self-care. I tend to think self-care is mis-understood as a "nice to have" versus a "must-have." I loved your recent Instagram about how self-care can be a mindset issue as you have to believe you are worthy of it. What does self-care look like to you and how do you find time for it/validate your worthiness?
For me, self-care is an absolute non-negotiable and my family know this. If I don’t keep up with it, I am snappy with my husband and my kids. I make terrible decisions and I don't sleep well, then they are angry because it becomes a very toxic environment. Self-care being non-negotiable extends way beyond my family as I’ve had a mental health breakdown in the past. Self-care is basic for me and I’ve reframed it as a necessity. It’s more about everyday life. It’s not about going on holiday and thinking that’s how you look after yourself. That is icing on the cake. For me, self-care starts in the morning we always have breakfast at the table with my family and then I always do some sort of movement in the morning. Most of the time, it's about silence and me checking in with myself, as well as getting outside getting some fresh air. Eating well – eating all the colors of the rainbow and drinking loads of water – is self care, too. I try to see my friends. That's part of my self-care, either spending time with family or connecting with a friend. I now know I am worth taking care of because I have seen the domino effect that happens when I don’t.
What have been the highlights of creating Clementine? What have been the greatest challenges?
I think there's probably two really big things. One is it’s really nice to know that you have created something that helps other people. I love that when I'm feeling a bit down because it's not always roses and it's really hard running a business, I just go the reviews and read the massive impact that we have on people and it just makes me feel really good. I was looking at one yesterday where a lady was saying that she'd been using the app for a couple of years and how it had had a net positive effect on her life and I was like oh my god that that's incredible that someone says that our app has a net positive impact on their whole life! Then the second one is quite a personal thing. I feel quite proud of myself for all the things that I've managed to create. For example, the partnerships that we land with massive brands often with no idea what we're building and we're just doing it all from scratch. For the greatest challenge, it's definitely how to grow in a sustainable way without spending loads of money. It's the thing that keeps me up at night the most: I really believe that we have something that every woman would benefit from but how do we get it into the hands of women and encourage them to use it? Because I know that everybody's really busy and we put ourselves last, so even if women have the app, how do you convince them to use it on a regular basis?
What is one of your current favorite Clementine hypnotherapy sessions at the moment?
Power nap! I use the power nap session probably daily. When I was a new mum and wasn't sleeping that well, I would pay a thousand quid for that session because of the benefits that I get from it. It’s basically having a cup of coffee without having the cup of coffee and I just feel like my brain is quieter when I finish. I'm nicer, more relaxed and more creative after a five minute session.
Best and worst business advice you've ever received?
Worst business advice I've ever received was that I wasn't confident enough in our ability to go faster at one point in our journey and so I made some decisions based off that feedback that in hindsight were wrong. I should have trusted my instinct, which was it had nothing to do with me not being confident but that I wanted to experiment versus throw everything at one thing. For best advice, I don't know if it's advice and more is just something that I've learned along the way is to not follow anyone's else's path. It's their path and you can't just copy what everyone else is doing. It’s fine for me and Clementine to have our own path and to question the idea that there is one path. I really try to not compare where we're going with everyone else's journeys.
We consider you to be an amazing innovator in the tec and women's mental health space. What innovators do you follow or are inspired by?
I am in awe of Ruby Rout, who is the founder of Wuka, and the way that she has built her business. How she leads her business as a founder really aligns with my own ideas on how to build and grow. I think there’s a way to do it which is completely authentic to yourself and your own values. I think she's done that and is absolutely brilliant!
What are your hopes for Clementine this year and beyond?
I think this is quite a key year for us as we're working on putting together some pieces of the puzzle which might expand the scope of what we offer to support women beyond hypnotherapy. I talk about my self-care not just about listening to hypnotherapy. It's also about movement, nutrition, and other elements. I foresee a world where we could help bring that together for women and bring together the experts to support women in achieving that type of self care.
I do worry that we're in an environment right now where because women are so busy and stressed, they're buying lots of products and services in the hope of a quick fix. For instance, finding the the holy grail for their menopause symptoms. However, it's always a holistic approach that works the best, even though probably no one wants to hear that. I think that we might be well placed to do that given the brand and the trust that we've built with women already. It’s very exciting.